The Best Feedback
Audio Transcript:
Have you ever been in a conversation with someone where they're just going on and on and on and you're like, dude, please just chill. Let let me let me tell you what I'm thinking, or you need to hear this. You know, so if you've got something to say. But, you know, it's just not here and or or the the noise of the day.
All of the headlines and news, you see crazy stuff going on in the world, and you're thinking, I have, you know, you just have a clear message you want someone to hear. And, yeah, I think I think we all kind of have that. And I think this week's challenge that, I'll talk about at the end of this podcast, for those of you who were following along, quickly reminded me that there are two sides to feedback.
And as much as many of us, I think, you know, if you're listening this, you're probably in a role somewhere in your life and maybe everywhere in your life where giving feedback is an important component. We talked about that in the last episode. you know, it's just an important role if you're a leader in a company or in your family and your community, feedback is important to give.
RECEIVING Feedback
But it's just as and maybe more as important. I'm not trying to be silly here. It's more important to to receive feedback, and that's not always so easy. And I'll tell you, I consider myself a good listener. Consider myself someone who who elicits feedback and wants feedback and acts on that feedback and that all can be true.
But how do I behave in a in a day in, day out basis? Sends messages to others around me of is that really true? And I'll give you an example. So now, now granted, I'm talking at home at my family. Granted, some of this could be just, you know, kid drama and human drama and whatever else is fine, but there's been a, I'd like to say only once, but there's been a couple moments, several moments, maybe not, not 50, but a few where in a maybe know a heated moment with my kids or an emotional moment or something, was there trying to sort out their their personality in their life.
When I tell them, you know, tell me what you're really thinking. They would come back with something of the ilk that, well, I, you know, I would tell you, but you're going to get mad and I don't want to tell you, you don't really want to hear what I think, blah, blah, blah. And again, I say blah, blah, blah, not being important.
Just that, that kind of conversation we've all had, if you're a parent. And so I, you know, of course I care what they think. And I do want to hear what you really don't want to hear all the garbage. But the kids are people all day. I want to hear what you really think, but they had some perception that some of that was self self-induced.
They had. They created their own stuff. Maybe they watched. Just watch a TV show where the dad doesn't want to know anything. You know who knows, right? Whatever. It's all goes into the potpourri of of of child a parent relationship. But I had a part to play in there and I had a responsibility play there. I may have reacted to something you said in the past.
I may have been so strong about how I feel about something that if they feel differently, they may automatically feel like they can't share that with me. So there's all kinds of things that goes on there. When that hits me, my first reaction is to get angry or to get upset with them. Well, of course I want to hear, you know, but that's not helpful, right?
And I'm not saying I haven't done that, but I think the best reaction for me and what I've found that works is, is, okay, you know what? You hey, maybe I've maybe I've said something behaved in a way or otherwise led you to believe, that that I'm not interested in what you're saying, but I am. But, you know, in that moment, it's too late.
It's not too late. But, you know, you've already missed maybe some feedback throughout. And look, you don't cry over spilled milk at that point. You know, you adjust as best you can. But I guess that's just one example where I wonder how much in in our lives. And, you know, again, this podcast is based around the three rules.
I live a founder father and a friend to my to my friends in my community. And I, you know, I think you probably have some aspect of life in any one or all of those three. It's easy to just roll through and not recognize that maybe you're not, putting, you know, the vibes out there that you want feedback and maybe you're not getting the feedback.
Maybe you are. And I'm sure many of you are, and you're awesome at it. And that's great. I, I really believe I am someone who who thrives on feedback, and I ask it a lot. I look for it a lot. I really try to value the input of those around me, but still, I'm sure there are people on the team that think they can't speak up to me or whatever, you know, for whatever reason, right?
And again, I you can't own everybody's neurosis, right? A lot of people have their own stuff and they come to this thing and they are not willing to share. It doesn't matter what you say do or whatever. That's their that's their stuff. Well, that's on them. I can't, you know, I can help them the best I can. But hey man, you know, if you're going to choose for the world to be, you know, all barbs and arrows coming at you and I can't help you.
but if you're open to it, you know, I want to hear what you're thinking. And so, I guess this, this moment kind of after last week where we focused on feedback coming in or going going out, like for we're going out. you know, I think it's, it's worth talking about feedback coming in. And for me, I found it to be super valuable when I can get that feedback.
However, it's not always so easy depending on what role you're in. And I, I have a ton of examples where somebody at the company would share something with me at some point and say, you know, I was going to tell you this earlier, but I just wasn't sure, you know, whatever reasons they bring. Right. you know, certainly stuff that goes on the community, there's lots of, of conversations between folks, but maybe they don't come directly to you, you know, with, with, like, maybe a project you're working on or what your intent is or whatever.
And so, I mean, I think this is part of human nature. There's a there's a fear, there's whatever. So you, you know, I, I think for me, I really try to have that bright light on that says, tell me what you're thinking. You could come to me with this feedback. I mean, how many times I've asked this podcast, you guys let me know how this is going.
You know, it's it's almost and it become wrote. It can become rote, I get that. But, there's just in every facet of my life I'm looking for feedback. Feedback drives me, helps me be better, helps me be better for, for for those around me. Better for myself. it just so many things helping me keep from from hurting folks, you know?
I mean, we can all inadvertently hurt folks by our actions. So I just, I think it's super important. It's absolutely potent to give feedback and just as important it is to give it. And again, I think maybe even more so is to is to get it. So how do we do that. Well, you know, there's always, you know, depending on what what, what social media platform you're looking at or what influencer you're, you're, you're watching or listening to or whatever else.
There's several out there that say, you know, there's this one trick to do this. And I mean, I my stomach turns every time I see that kind of headline, like, here's this one trick. All employees, you know, to get what they're really thinking, or this is one trick to get your kids to tell you everything they do. There's icky blah, blah, blah, whatever, right.
I think the one trick, honestly, is, is to care. That's that's the trick. Like, first, first, you got to really want to know. I mean, people are smart, man. I,
having kids myself and watching them grow, they are incredibly intelligent and intuitive and you can't really be awesome generally.
I mean, you can get away with things, of course, right? I mean, how long does you know certain holiday celebrations go? I get it, but but in terms of those are there's some desire to want to believe those things. But but when they when you're looking at, you know, something where you're trying to get feedback from a, from a child or, or from an employee, that's the other thing.
Employees are going to be very savvy. They're going to know, do you care about what they're going to tell you? Or are you just following the motions, checking the box, doing the corporate thing? You just read a new book and it tells you to ask for feedback. You know, they're going to know. And so I think you really it all starts with with absolutely caring, you know, really wanting the feedback.
So if you don't want the feedback this is, you know, don't do this. That's a that's not who you are. Don't do it, man. It's just that inauthenticity people see right through that. Generally I know you can bluff. You know, what is it you can feel some of the people all the time, but not all the people all the time or don't, or whatever it is.
this is one of those things. I don't think you fool people very long. They kind of catch on pretty quickly if you really care or not. so, so I think that's that's right off the bat, you get a care. I, I think when we look at, kind of how that, that you set the stage for that, it's also being kind of being ready and humbled to receive it because you can care what people think.
But then when they tell you what they think, for me, anyway, sometimes it hurts. Sometimes I don't want to hear that. Sometimes it's completely antithetical to who I think I am or how I think I'm behaving. And you know what? Maybe they're wrong. That's okay too. And I think that's part of what to realize. Sometimes somebody's feedback is, is ill informed or it's a projection of their own experiences, their own ways of doing things.
But you can't assess that in the moment. It's almost you got it. You got to kind of hear that out and let them give that feedback so you can begin to argue in the middle of feedback. It's not feedback anymore. Now it's an argument. You're arguing positions and that's, that's that's a surefire way to tell somebody you don't really care what they think.
You just what do I mean? How much do we see that? Right? In the in the public discourse today? There's not really I don't know how many times I've jumped in the comments with people I love and respect and who are super intelligent and awesome humans and the Earth. they've got a position ready to fire. Their guns are loaded and there's not really a conversation to be had.
There's not really a feedback loop you can have with folks. Oftentimes in the political discourse, it's more just they're they're firing their their guns and they're waiting for you to fire. And whatever you say, even if it's a real question about, you know, trying to understand their position, they think it's an attack and, you know, saying you don't want to get into that.
I mean, I don't I don't anyway. but you know, so so again, be ready, be humble. But you know, first care but be ready. Be humble. But also, you know, when you get feedback, if you do nothing with it, you know, people give it to you for a while. But if you don't do anything with, you know, apply it in any, any visible way or any meaningful or demonstrable way, then you know why are people going to give it to you?
So they stop. And I think that's what happens sometimes with kids. Maybe there's they're learning the world. They will give you feedback about something. And, I'm, I'm a I'm the kind of parent that tries to explain what I'm doing or why not that I it look, you're a parent. Your job is to at different stages of the kid's life.
You know, your job is to you sustain them and keep them alive and keep them safe and grow. You know, all those things, right? So sometimes it just is what it is. But, I do try to explain that those things, but. So my kids bring feedback. Sometimes I bring feedback and they don't understand the context around it.
And so, I mean, my behavior may not change, but if that's the case, I try to explain to them why. And I think that's that's helpful. But generally I think we need to be ready to, to take action on that feedback. I think the other thing is really important. And this this goes at Mountain Leverage and my family.
This is a little harder in the community, I think, because let's face it, I mean, I have more control in in my family and more influence and control at, at Mount Leverage than I do in my community. Now. I have I have I have influence, we all have influence at some levels, whatever. But we all have influence.
But to create a culture, to create a culture and really drive a culture of feedback and one of open communication that's that takes a lot of work. And it it does take control and influence to a certain degree and a tribe. So if you have several folks in your community that that believe in this, then then cool, you can get there.
And it just it's just it's just harder. It's just it just takes more it's more difficult in communities and really in a family. Right. So if your significant other, your partner, who's helping raise your family, if you've got one, that's, you know, they get a buy in on this and they got to not only buy in on the philosophy, they have to buy in on the execution.
And that that is, is difficult as well. as a company, if you are the founder and you're creating, your company will make sure you hire people who buy into this. that's really important. I think I've found it to be super important every time we've made a hire where it's been, someone who is is bounced against this kind of notion, like they are the stud they're going to walk in and just, you know, crap all over everybody else because they're the best at what they do.
Those people don't. They don't need to work with me. It doesn't it doesn't work out because it doesn't create an environment where there are there are great ideas from all angles of folks within the company, and you don't want to shut that down. So that's that whole feedback loop. So yeah, be ready to, you know, to have a culture that's going to support that.
And if you don't be ready to just not know what's going on, then you got to snoop around, you got to it's just so tough. so anyway, again, I think care that's the first thing you got to really want. And that's that's not easy. If you're not that kind of person right off the bat, or if you don't have that experience in your upbringing or in your life or your professional, whatever it is, there's some work there, and there's a ton of I.
I joke about books and influences, although there's some good ones out there. There's some really great books about this. in terms of, of of listening and really caring. Don't, don't go with like the tactics stuff. You know, Covey would say the personality ethic versus the character ethic go with that foundational stuff. You know, the things that are out there.
Maybe there's some some great, books from from certain practitioners and folks that are studying the field. what really, you know, to help you understand it and value it. And change fundamentally, as opposed to, here's this neat trick to show people you might be listening. I mean, you know, okay, those things can be helpful that fine. But if you really don't care, I don't care what tricks you show to somebody that looks like you're listening or they feel like you're listening.
If you're not listening, it's worthless and they'll know sooner or later. So that's it. Be humble. Be ready to get to receive that feedback and take action when you get it, and create that culture of feedback so that it is one where folks feel comfortable generally, offering feedback to you, whether that's at home or in your company and again, in your community.
You just started that way. And the last thing I'd say is being proactive about it. I've found through the years that if I don't make it a routine, part of my proactivity and outreach to those folks for feedback, I'm not always going to get it. And I think, again, that part of that is, is based on positional stuff.
I mean, we we try really hard again, both at Mountain Leverage and, and at, in my home that anyone can speak up at anytime. Your, your, your thoughts are valuable when you've got what's going on. Because in an everyday basis, you're, you're espousing a lot of feedback. And so they're taking it. So it creates kind of a a normal pattern where they're not necessarily giving you feedback.
So I think that's where that proactive piece comes in. Even though it's open and you've got a culture there and all that, still having those proactive moments of seeking that feedback, I find that to be magic for me. So, you know, I, I, you know, your mileage may vary as always. And my imposter syndrome, Frank is telling me, what the heck do you even know about this?
Why you're being so constructive here. What do you know? Right, so I will tell you. Hey, everybody's situation is different. And the amount of feedback you want that you that the environment you want for that, that's fine. I'm just telling you what I have found. I've found if I am constantly the megaphone shouting, I'm missing some really great moments and some magic and some great information and some great connections with those around me, those I love, those are working with those at home, those that have great ideas and communities.
If I am only just blasting my feedback. and again, it's not about being polite and just letting something talk. It's about truly caring about what they say. I can learn something from anyone, anyone, anyone out there I know, I know, even even the people you look at and go, really? You know, what's the phrase? Your mouth breathers and all that.
People have their people. Everybody has some magic. And I always try to find that. And you can't find it if you aren't. If you don't care, you can't find it if you aren't humble and ready to hear it, and to take action. If you get that kind of feedback, you know, you it's harder to find it if you are in your organization, whether it's a team or a company or whatever it is, that you haven't created, a culture where that feedback is, is welcome.
And then ultimately, again, just the the mess of the day, the noise of the day, the week it goes by. And so I think, you know, for me to create, create proactive signposts along the way to stop and say, hey, I want I need some feedback, needs feedback on this, that, that matters. So I hope this is valuable to you.
We're going to talk here in a minute about the the challenge. If you're following along. Great. We're going to catch up. What just happened as well as what's going to happen next week.
REFLECTING ON LAST WEEK’S CHALLENGE
So I hope today's episode was helpful for you and gives you at least some some value you can apply in your life to to help you down that path for flourish ment. now I want to talk about the challenge we just ended or ending right now, which is that that whole feedback, giving feedback, how best to give feedback.
And we you know, we had a kind of a quick setup, right. It was it was opened up with that question who needs to hear feedback from me today. And now again, you all may did whatever you may have done something different. And that's all cool. But I walk through each day and I ask myself, who who needs to hear feedback from me today?
And as I mentioned in the previous episode, that we that we release with a lot of Q&A on that. So if you haven't heard that you're interested, you can certainly check that out. but but I found that was that had some unintended value, some unintended consequences that I didn't expect it. It was it was cool. what am the main one was, you know, in the busyness of the week of the day, sometimes messages come in that I'm like, oh, I want to take some time for that.
And I don't get back to it. And I still remember it. It's creates an open loop, an open thread in my mind, but I didn't actually solve it. And when I asked myself that question, I thought of things from from a couple months ago, and I was like, I need to get back to that person. That person deserves a response from me.
And so that was really cool. And also, obviously, it's intended consequence of thinking through folks that that might need to hear some feedback from me. so it was cool. So I like that question. In fact, as you know, if you've been listening along, this was my people week. So, I already had lots of one on one scheduled and all that was cool, but I and I'm going to next week keep that question front and center every day of the people week now.
I'm not gonna do it every day of it all the all the month, every month. Just because, you know, things can get stale. So the novel, the novelty of it, I think is important. So during my people week, which is the first week of every month, I'm going to ask myself that question every day. Who needs to hear feedback from me today?
So I think that'd be cool. And then, you know, at the end of the day was who'd I give feedback to? Who didn't get feedback from me that maybe should have? And how could I be better at this tomorrow? Now, that question is a is a winner every day if you ask, how can I be better at whatever tomorrow, right?
How can I be better? tomorrow is always a good one, but it's specifically around feedback. It was cool. I found, you know, when I look at I kind of what happened, I think, you know, it gave me a chance for, you know, giving, giving feedback. People who I think needed it, wanted it, valued it. It also, you know, I think a couple of my relationships got closer in those conversations.
So I think that was cool. And that's, that's that often happens. I mean, again, it it it takes two to tango. So who knows what the other side's going to how they're going to respond to that. But yeah, I had a couple relationships get closer and it was cool. And, you know, a buddy of mine who also follows along the podcast and whatnot, and a great leader in his, in his life and family and all that imagery reminded me kind of jokingly that, you know, the don't forget.
I mean, we talk a lot about feedback on the podcast as such, but what I didn't mention really is like, you know, the old adage of, man, you're not doing this out in front of everybody. You know? And I think he jokingly said, yeah, grab everybody in the room, berate them, you know, get us up in front of everybody else.
Right. Of course, that's not the feedback we want to give. there is that old notion of if if it's if it's if it's good, if it's great feedback, you want to give it publicly and if it's private feedback or I'm sorry if it's constructive feedback, you want to give it in private. I'll tell you, I've tested the boundaries on that some amount leverage because we've created such a culture for feedback, and it can be valuable sometimes when you have people who trust each other and love each other and you're working on something together that you can have open feedback dialogs in, in a group, and there's real value there.
There's real value. So but generally I think it's it is best to look at this stuff in a, in a one on one type conversation. So anyway, I hopefully it was valuable to you. It was valuable to me. but here we go. Now we're talking about this next level of of challenge. And this is flipping feedback on its head.
So now it's like getting it the more important feedback maybe I should say. And in this case, when we look at the baseline for this challenge, again, just like I mentioned in the podcast, just a, just a moment ago, to get that, to get that feedback, I think you got to care. First of all, you can't fool anybody for very long.
You got to care. then then be ready to receive it, be humble and take action with what you get. And then ultimately make sure you're creating a culture of feedback, one that you're going to get. And then lastly, being proactive. Even though you've created a culture, you know you're ready and you want it. If you aren't proactive, it's it's going to it's going to wane. You're not going to get what you need on an ongoing basis.
THIS WEEK’S CHALLENGE
So this week's challenge I want to focus. I'm going to focus on the the productivity piece of that. And I'm really only going to focus on my founder role and my father and husband role. yeah. Community feedback is different and we've done some. Maybe we'll talk to some about that in the future.
But but for this challenge for me this week, I'm going to focus on my role as a founder and father. And so right off the bat, one of the things that I do periodically and I have I've always enjoyed what I get back from and sometimes it's always good stuff. Don't get me wrong, feedback can sometimes hurt and I get all that, but I routinely, or periodically, I should say, have sent out a survey.
And, so yeah, it's thrilling to work with me in this regard. I get it. But a survey, an anonymous survey, in case people want to share more openly than they can. And I you I my philosophy on surveys. I cannot stand anonymous surveys because if I get data that I want to take action on, but I it wasn't fully clear in the survey, I want to be able to reach out and say, hey, what were you thinking here with this?
But I know with sensitive things and I want to try to get as much feedback as I can. I offer the chance for people to be anonymous, and then that allows them to share more openly, maybe, than they would if they if they'd pin their name to it. I can tell you over the years, most folks, when they fill out these surveys, they put their name on it anyway because they like, hey, if you need to follow up because they know how I feel about it and they they also know they can trust me.
They can trust me with that. So I think that's important. But I start with an anonymous survey and periodically I'll send it out and it just has a few simple questions on it. And it again, I'm sending it out to people who I've worked with over that period of time most recently. And the questions are pretty simple. It's, hey, what are some of my strengths?
Or I use the phrase, what's working with Alex? the next question is how or where do I need to improve? The next question is, how can I better support you in your role and or contribute to the company's success? And that's a cool. And because it brings this feedback to them, it's not all about me. It's like, you know, how can I help you be better?
And again, these are people I'm working with. Maybe I'm supporting them. They're supporting me I don't know. And so that's I think that's a vital question. Just kind of help help direct their thought process. And then I also add this, you know, are there any recurring habits or behaviors of mine that you find unhelpful or challenging? You know, do I chew with my mouth up and do I what I would do I say the same thing over and over again that might eventually lead to a meeting, whatever it is, things like that that can grate on a team when you're working side by side, doing hard things for long hours, whatever it is, I
just want to know. And sometimes that stuff will pop up there and, it can be valuable. And the last question I always with any survey, I always open because, hey, is there anything else you'd like to share? And when you have great people around you and smart people and you, this would just allows them to like, okay, free will be will you give me whatever you've got?
And I'm almost always get stuff in that box. So that's that's the survey that I have built and valued over the years. And so that's what, you know, that's what I'm going to do this week. In fact, that's part of the challenge I'm offering for you all. But in fact, I actually already sent this out, a couple of weeks ago and got feedback in and I'm applying some of what I've gotten there.
So it was great. So I've done that. but what I am going to do for me, I'm going to take this to the next level that I've, I've not done before, certainly to scale of company we have today. And I'm not sure I was gonna go get to tell you, I'm going to put those survey the survey link in a companywide slack today.
so anyone at our company can offer feedback to me, anonymously, as when I already have an anonymous thing, like an ask Alex that goes out there. So anyone can always reach out to me anonymously like that. But this is more of a proactive. Hey, I'm looking to hear how you think I'm doing, what I can do better.
Now. I'm not trying to burden everybody with it, so it's not going to be required. Nobody's getting brownie points because it's all anonymous and all that kind of stuff. But I do want to make it open. So we'll see. We'll see how it goes. If that doesn't work, you know, we'll see. But given that I already sent it out to the folks around me, I've got some stuff to work on, so that's cool.
you know, your mileage may vary. You may try that. But now, shifting gears to my family, you know, I talk to my wife and kids about this. you know, I'm sure it's a treat to be married and for me to be your dad, I get it. But I've talked to them about this, and they said how best would it be for for me to to get feedback from you?
And we've tried this a couple times through the years. but but they all said, hey, let's have it. Well, the kids said, let's, let's have a one on one. That would be better. So let's sit down and talk through it. yeah. My wife wasn't so sure. We'll try it. That goes, I get no shortage of feedback there, but, so we'll, we'll we'll see.
So that's I am I'm going to focus on those two areas, and I'm going to sit down and have individual conversations and I'm ready to listen. Right. And then you can apply all those tools we talked about in the last podcast that so many people have out there, how, you know, let people know you're listening. But I really do care.
I really want to hear from them how I could be a better dad or a better husband or or whatever. and I and you know what? It doesn't hurt to hear how they think I'm doing. Well, that's why, like, questions in there. That's not an ego question, but it does help it. You know, we are so hard on ourselves for the most part.
I imagine if you're listening to this podcast, you often can be hard on yourself. And I've, I've talked about my, imposter syndrome Frank, who's hard on me quite a bit. that's that feedback is always there, man. Always there. So when I reach out for feedback, I try to try to get some of the good stuff. And that's why, again, we talked about giving feedback.
Hey, it's always good to have some of that there to not in just some kind of tactic to ease the the bitter pill down, but to really to really make sure you're looking at people holistically and trying to get some good stuff. So you deserve that yourself. All right. So that's the challenge. Put that survey out there. and I'm going to also talk, kind of one on one with my kids who got to ask the same question.
So I'm going to use the survey template as the same, the same kind of questions, including, are there any recurring habits or behaviors of mine that you find it helpful? A challenging, I'm sure in my family when I'm going to get some good ones. So anyway, hopefully this this challenge and again with these challenges, you do you do you man, if you've got something else, some other tricks you want to try.
Great. I think just the notion of several of us getting, you know, doing our own, our own thing, but in the same vein. Right. So we're all focusing on this. How do we receive feedback this week? That's cool. And I appreciate that. I appreciate those of you that are, following along with us and, yeah, but hey, any feedback, questions, whatever.
this week, as we go through, I if I get enough, I'll put another post out there with some Q&A. And, anyway, in the meantime, I hope this is helpful to you all. And I hope you do appreciate the feedback. you got to, folks, appreciate the feedback you gave them this week. And I hope you appreciate the feedback you'll get this coming week.
And as I always say, wherever you may be, I hope you are flourishing.
Alex Reneman is the founder of Mountain Leverage and Unleash Tygart and host of Flourishing w/ Alex Reneman. For 20+ years he has worked as CEO of Mountain Leverage, honing the concept of flourishing and experimenting with it in the business. In July of 2024, he decided to begin to share this idea with others, which led to his podcast, social content, and the plans for other initiatives in the future.
